In last week’s match, Bobby H. accidentally moved his ball during a practice swing, and correctly replaced the ball and took a penalty stroke. There was discussion last season about striking the ball my accident while on the green. From what I can tell from the rules of golf, there is no difference, as the ball on the green is in play.
A play on the tee area is not in play, unless you have already swung and missed, or hit a ball out of bounds.
Rule 18-2
Practice Swing Accidentally Moves Ball before Stroke on Teeing Ground
Q. Before making a stroke on the teeing ground, a player makes a practice swing and accidentally knocks the ball off the tee with the club. Is there a penalty?
A. There is no penalty as the ball was not in play. Additionally, the player has not made a stroke – see Definition of “Stroke.” The player must put a ball into play from the teeing ground. (Decision 18-2a/19)
Rule 18-2
Practice Swing Accidentally Moves Ball in Play
Q. While making a practice swing, Brenda accidentally moved her ball in play with her club. What is the ruling?
A. Brenda incurs a one stroke penalty, and must replace the ball to its original position. If she fails to replace the ball, she will incur a total penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play. Please refer to the Penalty Statement under Rule 18. (Rule 18-2a and Decision 18-2a/20)
I have asked that you double-check your scorecards before turning them in. It doesn’t seem that difficult for both carts to maintain a card and check them against each other at the turn and again at the end of your round. If this was “big time” golf, you’d be disqualified for an incorrect card. I know that some of us would prefer to be disqualified rather than turn in some of these scores. However …. I don’t know what to do to get people take more care in reporting, but I am suggesting that the Executive Committee declare a 1-stroke penalty to every member of the foursome that turns in an incorrect scorecard. I would imagine that might get your attention.
Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA to eliminate the effect of “distaster holes.” You know, that one hole per round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It’s also a way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on a hole in order to raise their handicaps.
Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken 14 strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup. But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a “7” on the scorecard you turn in.
Taking the “14” might throw your handicap index out of whack. And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average score, it’s meant to reflect your best potential.
To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you must first know your course handicap. Once you’ve determined your course handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you can’t determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you can’t determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course handicap. What gives?
Don’t worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a handicap index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index, and for women, 40.4.
Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
Equitable Stroke Control Chart
Course Handicap Maximum Score
0-9 Double Bogey
10-19 7
20-29 8
30-39 9
40 or more 10
This is all good information and explains the fine print in handicaps. Remember that this is the adjustment that I make when entering your scores for handicap. They do not reflect the number of strokes you write on your scorecard. If you take an 11, enter an 11, and I will enter the proper score according to our handicap.
FYI – Last week while at Stumpy Lake, my ball hit the cart of my playing partners – not my cart, but the other twosome in my group. Although not entirely sure of the ruling, I dropped another ball and took a penalty shot. I checked with our resident rules researcher (Herb) and this is what he found:
1. Rule 19.2 states that if a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner, … it’s a one stroke penalty.
2. A partner is a player associated with another player on the same side.
3. A “side” is a player, or two or more players who are partners.
4. The winner in Stableford competition is the competitor who scores the highest number of points. In our case the aggregate score of the competitors.
5. Where a competitors play or score is “teamed” with other players to compute a single score, those competitors are a side and therefore, partners.
I think the fact that you accumulate an individual score is a consequence of the competition, not the goal.
Following are extracted form The Rule of Golf from the USGA
**RULE 19. BALL IN MOTION DEFLECTED OR STOPPED**
19-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or EquipmentIf a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke. The ball must be played as it lies, except when it comes to rest in or on the player’s, his partner’s or either of their caddies’ clothes or equipment, in which case the ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball came to rest in or on the article, but not nearer the hole.
Exception 1: Ball striking person attending or holding up a flagstick or anything carried by him – see Rule 17-3b.
Exception 2: Dropped ball – see Rule 20-2a.
(Ball purposely deflected or stopped by player, partner or caddie – see Rule
1-2.)
Now we know. Thanks, Herb (RRR)
BTW – I had asked Arlen to move his cart before I hit my ball. He moved it off of the cart path into the wooded area. I still hit it – I meant for him to move it to the middle of the fairway!
I think if you hit your own cart you should take a penalty. If you hit someone else’s in your group, it should be the rub of the green. The other guys in your group aren’t watching what you are doing, and only half care.
If Jim-Bob is in your group, he may have no partners depending if he has a side bet, but will still earn league points based upon his score. and he be playing from a different set of rules. I think we should play (for everyone), if you hit
your own cart it is a penalty. If you hit the other cart in your group, no penalty. For league points you have no partners. The team bet is just a side bet. When we play cuts (one ties all tie), you may have partners in
the group in front of you as well.
Please note that this ruling involves more than just a cart. What if we’re all pulling carts and one of my “partners” leaves his cart behind the green and I hit it with one of my many errant pitches? What if he left his putter on the green to chip up a ball and I hit his putter? First thing you know, everyone will be “unintentionally” leaving clubs and equipment where it could benefit one of his partners. And, the other guys in your group may not be watching what you’re doing – but that is not their responsibility. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure that their gear is not going to interfer with your shot. If you are on the green putting and hit another ball on the green, you are penalized whether he is your “partner” or a member of your group. That is why it is YOUR responsibility to ask that he mark his ball, move his club, or move the flag. I think the rule is fairly clear.
The only difference that I have is in the definition of a partner. In our weekly formats, I would argue that a $3 side bet against the other groups, would not equate to them being your partner. You are playing against each of them as individuals, and each player is trying to pull their own points. I’m fine with declaring that everyone in your group is your partner. I’m also fine with declaring that no one in your group is your partner, but if you strike your equipment, or a cart that you share, you pay the penalty.
Mike Clark — Ask the guy at Bide-a-wee who used to be a USGA Official what he thinks. I think he will get a kick out our attention to the rules.
Seriously? I’m not going to embarrass myself and the group by even bringing this up. Ron stated it pretty well, it’s your responsability to ask them to move their equipment and if you mishit a shot that badly you deserve a penalty stroke.
I think the league does a pretty good job of trying to play by the rules. I like to think that some people simply do not know the rules and therefore are not aware that they are breaking the rule. However, once a rule is brought forward and discussed, there should be no excuse for “not knowing” the rule. One of the rules that we seem to overlook is that of playing a ball from the hazard. Many of us have been guilty of moving branches, pine cones, gumballs, and the like in hazards in order to have a better shot at the ball. Some have taken a couple of practice swings to test the ground. Some have even broken branches that interfere with our swing. If we’re all doing this and it is acceptable in our league – that’s one thing. But when some are playing by one rule and others are playing by another – that’s when we have a problem. I have cut and pasted the USGA rules regarding this occurence. I’d like to get a feeling from the league if this is getting too “technical” for our league rounds, or if we want adhere by the rule. I can live with either decision (although I would prefer to play by the rules), so long as EVERYONE plays by the same rule.
Rule 13. Ball Played as It Lies
Definitions
All defined terms are in italics and are listed alphabetically in the Definitions section.
13-1. GeneralThe ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided in the Rules.
(Ball at rest moved – see Rule 18.)
13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of PlayA player must not improve or allow to be improved:
· the position or lie of his ball,
· the area of his intended stance or swing,
· his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
· the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
· pressing a club on the ground,
· moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
· creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
· removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
· removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
· in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
· in fairly taking his stance,
· in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
· in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
· on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4.
13-3. Building StanceA player is entitled to place his feet firmly in taking his stance, but he must not build a stance.
13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited ActionsExcept as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:
a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;
b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or
c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard.
Exceptions:
1. Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction, in measuring or in marking the position of, retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any Rule or
(b) places his clubs in a hazard.
2. After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction.
3. If the player makes a stroke from a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard, Rule 13-4a does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the hazard from which the stroke was made.
Note: At any time, including at address or in the backward movement for the stroke, the player may touch, with a club or otherwise, any obstruction, any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing.
We’ve hardly started the season and I’m already getting comments and complaints about cheating. Why don’t you address the situation when it happens instead of after the round in the parking lot? Do you want to do something about it, or just talk about it? If you’re not challenging an infringement, you are as guilty as he. You’re giving him a score he did not earn which is part of the team score you are reporting at the end of the round. Cheating will continue until the cheater is challenged and made aware that he is being watched. The time for that is on the course – not the parking lot. Count ALL of your strokes. Don’t move the ball unless local rules dictate so. If you don’t know the rule – ask. If you know the rule and don’t speak up, your as guilty as the cheater.
Ron should not bare the responsibility of rule infractions after the fact. We are all responsible to ensure that each of us plays fairly and by the rules. Some of the rules are not easy to decipher and if you are not sure about a rule, ask your playing partners. By the same token, we have the responsibility to point out rule infractions when they occur. I for one do not want to spend my time on the golf course playing rule cop. I would much rather trust my partners are playing fairly and enjoy the friendship and the game of golf. If rules are broken, and confirmed by playing partners, that player should be disqualified with no points or winnings awarded and subsequent violations should warrant banning from league play.
I cut and pasted part of an article about golf and character. There are one or two folks in the league that members are talking about who stretch the rules, or who forget to count all their stokes (hopefully this is by accident, but we as members should challenge our playing partners if in doubt).
Enjoy.
I don’t know who said it first but the saying goes “golf does not build character’, it reveals it.” As a long time and formerly very active golfer who has participated in business golf, recreational golf and competitive golf I have been exposed to, and gained tremendous insight into how golf can reveal much about a person’s character. Unlike the office setting – the golf course affords you have a chance to observe a person’s decision making process, reasoning and problem solving ability by observing their course management, club and shot selection. You can learn much about their temperament by observing their responses to outcomes. These all reveal important aspects of character including: patience, integrity, temper, modesty, consideration, honesty, competitiveness, logic, wisdom, reason and ego.
I consider myself to be a student of the game of golf and have observed the golf swings of many dozens of people I know well. I have learnt that a persons golf swing (regardless of level of ability) reveals much about an individual, specifically: are they results or process oriented, methodical, quick, even tempered, curious, consistent, ambitious, aggressive, etc…
The great golfer Ben Hogan was known for being one of the few golfers ever who truly owned his golf swing. In his book Five Lessons, The Modern Fundamentals of Golf he defined character as , “… a set of fundamentals that appeared to me to be right because they accomplished a very definite purpose, a set of fundamentals that proved to me they were right because they stood up and produced under all kinds of pressure.”
Observing prospective employees or clients on the course will allow you to see them in a different light.
Sadly will not be presented with an opportunity to golf with the candidates for this position and will instead have to devise other tests that will simulate real work situations and help expose character the way a game of golf would.
While looking for your ball, a player in foursome picks up your ball by mistake, thinking that he found a bonus ball. You replace the ball and continue play. By rule definition, if the player is your foursome is considered your partner, you take a one stroke penalty. If they are your competitor, you play on with no penalty. Although we have a foursome team bet for 3 dollars, we are also playing against each other for low-net and season champion. I believe we should consider people in your foursome your competitors for rule purposes, since we are playing individual stroke play. This would change the way we enforce the rule for hitting a golf cart with the ball. We have been playing that if you hit any golf cart in your foursome, it is a penalty. With this change, you would only be peanlized if you hit your own golf cart. If someone like Jim-Bob doesn’t play the team bet, they have no partners, so the rule which affects league standing could be affected. (League Champion — PD)
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, March 30, 2010 @ 12:20 pm
The Executive Committee has this issue under consideration. This seems like a logical rule on the surface. However, I can’t help but envision someone from the other cart in the group positioning their cart in such a way to “assist” one of their stableford partners, knowing that no penalty can be incurred. If you think you might hit a cart and incur a penalty, wouldn’t it be easier to simply ask someone to move the cart? This appears to be along the same thinking of the rule regarding balls on the green when you’re putting. You have the option to ask that balls be marked. If you don’t, and hit a ball, penalties are invoked. The real question here is who is my partner and who is my competitor? I have three partners when playing stableford, but everyone is a competitor when vying for low-net.
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, March 30, 2010 @ 12:25 pm
Also, Herb looked into this. See my March 4, 2009 entry above.
Since we are all competing for the season champion, I say we are all competitors.
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, March 31, 2010 @ 9:32 am
It is the opinion of the Executive Committee that EVERYONE is your competitor. While it is understandable that we have “partners” in our stableford format, the main objective of each player is to score the lowest gross score possible. This is the basis for calculating low-net, calculating points for team stableford points, and the long-term goal of league champion. One of the reasons this issue was brought up was the questionable penalty for hitting a golf cart. Previously, Herb offered this ruling:
**RULE 19. BALL IN MOTION DEFLECTED OR STOPPED**
19-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment – If a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.
My understanding is if you hit yourself or any of your equipment (to include your cart), a penalty is incurred. If you hit someone else, or any of their equipment, no penalty is incurred.
Does anyone disagree? I’m learing, too.
In our first round of the season for the retired group, one of our golfer hit a ball off the tee into a sand trap which was short of the green. All players in the group saw the ball go into the trap. When arriving greenside, the ball could not be found. The player as allowed by the rules, raked the sand in an attempt to visually see the ball. The ball could not be found. The player and the group were confused as to what to do. The player took a 1 stoke penalty, and drop a ball in the trap. We did not know this was incorrect. You learn something everyday. Here is the rule:
Buried Out-of-Site in the Sand! Buried Lie # 12-1
What to do if your ball is lost in the sand.
If your ball is buried so deep in a bunker that it is lost from sight, what can be done to find it? More than you might think. Rule 12-1 allows you to rake the sand or probe it with a club, or anything else, as a way of uncovering a “lost” ball.
In your search, you are allowed to remove enough sand so that part of the ball (just enough to see that it is a ball) is visible. If an excess of sand is removed, or if the ball is moved in the process of searching for it, there is no penalty. Replace the ball if moved and, in either case, re-cover it with sand. (You are allowed to then remove some sand to leave part of the ball visible.)
If, once you’ve found it, you don’t think you can extricate the ball from the lie, you can declare it unplayable and take a one-stroke penalty. If you drop within two clubs-lengths no closer to the hole or on a line behind the ball, you must drop in the bunker; you can also return to the spot of your previous stroke. If the ball is not found, you must take a stroke-and-distance penalty for a lost ball.
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, January 12, 2011 @ 11:37 am
Mike Fuller – in regards to the ball lost in the sand trap, you could also use our league’s rule regarding a lost ball. Just thought I’d add that option.
Golf rules | sscngolf | 16 April 2008 | 
By Mike, April 16, 2008 @ 8:21 am
Mike // April 16, 2008 at 7:37 am
In last week’s match, Bobby H. accidentally moved his ball during a practice swing, and correctly replaced the ball and took a penalty stroke. There was discussion last season about striking the ball my accident while on the green. From what I can tell from the rules of golf, there is no difference, as the ball on the green is in play.
A play on the tee area is not in play, unless you have already swung and missed, or hit a ball out of bounds.
Rule 18-2
Practice Swing Accidentally Moves Ball before Stroke on Teeing Ground
Q. Before making a stroke on the teeing ground, a player makes a practice swing and accidentally knocks the ball off the tee with the club. Is there a penalty?
A. There is no penalty as the ball was not in play. Additionally, the player has not made a stroke – see Definition of “Stroke.” The player must put a ball into play from the teeing ground. (Decision 18-2a/19)
Rule 18-2
Practice Swing Accidentally Moves Ball in Play
Q. While making a practice swing, Brenda accidentally moved her ball in play with her club. What is the ruling?
A. Brenda incurs a one stroke penalty, and must replace the ball to its original position. If she fails to replace the ball, she will incur a total penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play. Please refer to the Penalty Statement under Rule 18. (Rule 18-2a and Decision 18-2a/20)
By Ron Williams, May 1, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
I have asked that you double-check your scorecards before turning them in. It doesn’t seem that difficult for both carts to maintain a card and check them against each other at the turn and again at the end of your round. If this was “big time” golf, you’d be disqualified for an incorrect card. I know that some of us would prefer to be disqualified rather than turn in some of these scores. However …. I don’t know what to do to get people take more care in reporting, but I am suggesting that the Executive Committee declare a 1-stroke penalty to every member of the foursome that turns in an incorrect scorecard. I would imagine that might get your attention.
By Bobby H., May 30, 2008 @ 11:04 am
Player A tee his ball 5 inches in front of the tee markers and hit a drive down the fairway. What is the penalty?
Match Play: No penalty for playing outside the teeing ground in match play.
Stroke Play rule 11-4b: No penalty strokes are given to player a. Player A can however be asked to replay his shot behind the tee marker.
By sscngolf, June 16, 2008 @ 8:45 am
Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) is the system put in place by the USGA to eliminate the effect of “distaster holes.” You know, that one hole per round where you put three balls in the water and then 5-putt. It’s also a way to combat those pernicious sandbaggers who intentionally blow up on a hole in order to raise their handicaps.
Equitable Stroke Control puts a limit on the number of strokes you can write down on the scorecard for any one hole, based on your course handicap. For example, on that one disaster hole you might have taken 14 strokes (get to the practice range, buddy!) to get the ball in the cup. But based on your course handicap, ESC might require you to post only a “7” on the scorecard you turn in.
Taking the “14” might throw your handicap index out of whack. And remember, the handicap index is not meant to reflect your average score, it’s meant to reflect your best potential.
To determine the Equitable Stroke Control limits for your round, you must first know your course handicap. Once you’ve determined your course handicap, you can check the chart down below (which should also be available at golf courses) to determine the ESC limits.
Of course, if you have not yet established a handicap index, then you can’t determine a course handicap. And without a course handicap, you can’t determine ESC. But in order to established a handicap index, you must turn in adjusted gross scores, which requires knowing a course handicap. What gives?
Don’t worry, the USGA knows what to do. If you do not yet have a handicap index, then use the maximum allowable handicaps to determine course handicap and ESC. For men, that means using 36.4 as a handicap index, and for women, 40.4.
Here is the chart that shows Equitable Stroke Control limits:
Equitable Stroke Control Chart
Course Handicap Maximum Score
0-9 Double Bogey
10-19 7
20-29 8
30-39 9
40 or more 10
By Ron Williams, June 16, 2008 @ 10:34 am
This is all good information and explains the fine print in handicaps. Remember that this is the adjustment that I make when entering your scores for handicap. They do not reflect the number of strokes you write on your scorecard. If you take an 11, enter an 11, and I will enter the proper score according to our handicap.
By Ron Williams, March 4, 2009 @ 8:27 am
FYI – Last week while at Stumpy Lake, my ball hit the cart of my playing partners – not my cart, but the other twosome in my group. Although not entirely sure of the ruling, I dropped another ball and took a penalty shot. I checked with our resident rules researcher (Herb) and this is what he found:
1. Rule 19.2 states that if a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner, … it’s a one stroke penalty.
2. A partner is a player associated with another player on the same side.
3. A “side” is a player, or two or more players who are partners.
4. The winner in Stableford competition is the competitor who scores the highest number of points. In our case the aggregate score of the competitors.
5. Where a competitors play or score is “teamed” with other players to compute a single score, those competitors are a side and therefore, partners.
I think the fact that you accumulate an individual score is a consequence of the competition, not the goal.
Following are extracted form The Rule of Golf from the USGA
**RULE 19. BALL IN MOTION DEFLECTED OR STOPPED**
19-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or EquipmentIf a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke. The ball must be played as it lies, except when it comes to rest in or on the player’s, his partner’s or either of their caddies’ clothes or equipment, in which case the ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball came to rest in or on the article, but not nearer the hole.
Exception 1: Ball striking person attending or holding up a flagstick or anything carried by him – see Rule 17-3b.
Exception 2: Dropped ball – see Rule 20-2a.
(Ball purposely deflected or stopped by player, partner or caddie – see Rule
1-2.)
Now we know. Thanks, Herb (RRR)
BTW – I had asked Arlen to move his cart before I hit my ball. He moved it off of the cart path into the wooded area. I still hit it – I meant for him to move it to the middle of the fairway!
By Prairie Dog, March 4, 2009 @ 10:01 am
I think if you hit your own cart you should take a penalty. If you hit someone else’s in your group, it should be the rub of the green. The other guys in your group aren’t watching what you are doing, and only half care.
If Jim-Bob is in your group, he may have no partners depending if he has a side bet, but will still earn league points based upon his score. and he be playing from a different set of rules. I think we should play (for everyone), if you hit
your own cart it is a penalty. If you hit the other cart in your group, no penalty. For league points you have no partners. The team bet is just a side bet. When we play cuts (one ties all tie), you may have partners in
the group in front of you as well.
By Ron Williams, March 4, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
Please note that this ruling involves more than just a cart. What if we’re all pulling carts and one of my “partners” leaves his cart behind the green and I hit it with one of my many errant pitches? What if he left his putter on the green to chip up a ball and I hit his putter? First thing you know, everyone will be “unintentionally” leaving clubs and equipment where it could benefit one of his partners. And, the other guys in your group may not be watching what you’re doing – but that is not their responsibility. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure that their gear is not going to interfer with your shot. If you are on the green putting and hit another ball on the green, you are penalized whether he is your “partner” or a member of your group. That is why it is YOUR responsibility to ask that he mark his ball, move his club, or move the flag. I think the rule is fairly clear.
By Prairie Dog, March 4, 2009 @ 1:45 pm
The only difference that I have is in the definition of a partner. In our weekly formats, I would argue that a $3 side bet against the other groups, would not equate to them being your partner. You are playing against each of them as individuals, and each player is trying to pull their own points. I’m fine with declaring that everyone in your group is your partner. I’m also fine with declaring that no one in your group is your partner, but if you strike your equipment, or a cart that you share, you pay the penalty.
Mike Clark — Ask the guy at Bide-a-wee who used to be a USGA Official what he thinks. I think he will get a kick out our attention to the rules.
By Clark, March 4, 2009 @ 10:08 pm
Seriously? I’m not going to embarrass myself and the group by even bringing this up. Ron stated it pretty well, it’s your responsability to ask them to move their equipment and if you mishit a shot that badly you deserve a penalty stroke.
By Prairie Dog, March 5, 2009 @ 8:38 am
I think he would think it is funny. It seems like everytime we play there, we have an strange rule interpretation that we ask him about.
I actually believe for league play, we consider anyone in your foursome as your partner, regardless if playing in the side bets.
If you play strictly by USGA rules, and there is no betting, you have no partners, so you would only be penalized if you hit your own equipment.
My only question remains, what makes a player your partner? I don’t think you would get a USGA ruling, since the USGA doesn’t recognize gambling.
By Ron Williams, March 20, 2009 @ 8:30 am
I think the league does a pretty good job of trying to play by the rules. I like to think that some people simply do not know the rules and therefore are not aware that they are breaking the rule. However, once a rule is brought forward and discussed, there should be no excuse for “not knowing” the rule. One of the rules that we seem to overlook is that of playing a ball from the hazard. Many of us have been guilty of moving branches, pine cones, gumballs, and the like in hazards in order to have a better shot at the ball. Some have taken a couple of practice swings to test the ground. Some have even broken branches that interfere with our swing. If we’re all doing this and it is acceptable in our league – that’s one thing. But when some are playing by one rule and others are playing by another – that’s when we have a problem. I have cut and pasted the USGA rules regarding this occurence. I’d like to get a feeling from the league if this is getting too “technical” for our league rounds, or if we want adhere by the rule. I can live with either decision (although I would prefer to play by the rules), so long as EVERYONE plays by the same rule.
Rule 13. Ball Played as It Lies
Definitions
All defined terms are in italics and are listed alphabetically in the Definitions section.
13-1. GeneralThe ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided in the Rules.
(Ball at rest moved – see Rule 18.)
13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of PlayA player must not improve or allow to be improved:
· the position or lie of his ball,
· the area of his intended stance or swing,
· his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
· the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
· pressing a club on the ground,
· moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
· creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
· removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
· removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
· in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
· in fairly taking his stance,
· in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
· in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
· on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard – see Rule 13-4.
13-3. Building StanceA player is entitled to place his feet firmly in taking his stance, but he must not build a stance.
13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited ActionsExcept as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:
a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;
b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or
c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard.
Exceptions:
1. Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction, in measuring or in marking the position of, retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any Rule or
(b) places his clubs in a hazard.
2. After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction.
3. If the player makes a stroke from a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard, Rule 13-4a does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the hazard from which the stroke was made.
Note: At any time, including at address or in the backward movement for the stroke, the player may touch, with a club or otherwise, any obstruction, any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing.
By Ron C., March 27, 2009 @ 2:50 pm
Please update the Rules listed under “Rules” on our golf website. Thanks,
By Ron Williams, March 31, 2009 @ 7:45 am
I sent the “modified” rules to Rudy. The only change is the members of the Handicap Committee. Is this what you’re looking for?
By Rudy, March 31, 2009 @ 11:15 am
posted
By Ron Williams, April 30, 2009 @ 8:23 am
We’ve hardly started the season and I’m already getting comments and complaints about cheating. Why don’t you address the situation when it happens instead of after the round in the parking lot? Do you want to do something about it, or just talk about it? If you’re not challenging an infringement, you are as guilty as he. You’re giving him a score he did not earn which is part of the team score you are reporting at the end of the round. Cheating will continue until the cheater is challenged and made aware that he is being watched. The time for that is on the course – not the parking lot. Count ALL of your strokes. Don’t move the ball unless local rules dictate so. If you don’t know the rule – ask. If you know the rule and don’t speak up, your as guilty as the cheater.
By Larry Smith, April 30, 2009 @ 10:09 am
Ron should not bare the responsibility of rule infractions after the fact. We are all responsible to ensure that each of us plays fairly and by the rules. Some of the rules are not easy to decipher and if you are not sure about a rule, ask your playing partners. By the same token, we have the responsibility to point out rule infractions when they occur. I for one do not want to spend my time on the golf course playing rule cop. I would much rather trust my partners are playing fairly and enjoy the friendship and the game of golf. If rules are broken, and confirmed by playing partners, that player should be disqualified with no points or winnings awarded and subsequent violations should warrant banning from league play.
By Prairie Dog, May 1, 2009 @ 2:21 pm
I cut and pasted part of an article about golf and character. There are one or two folks in the league that members are talking about who stretch the rules, or who forget to count all their stokes (hopefully this is by accident, but we as members should challenge our playing partners if in doubt).
Enjoy.
I don’t know who said it first but the saying goes “golf does not build character’, it reveals it.” As a long time and formerly very active golfer who has participated in business golf, recreational golf and competitive golf I have been exposed to, and gained tremendous insight into how golf can reveal much about a person’s character. Unlike the office setting – the golf course affords you have a chance to observe a person’s decision making process, reasoning and problem solving ability by observing their course management, club and shot selection. You can learn much about their temperament by observing their responses to outcomes. These all reveal important aspects of character including: patience, integrity, temper, modesty, consideration, honesty, competitiveness, logic, wisdom, reason and ego.
I consider myself to be a student of the game of golf and have observed the golf swings of many dozens of people I know well. I have learnt that a persons golf swing (regardless of level of ability) reveals much about an individual, specifically: are they results or process oriented, methodical, quick, even tempered, curious, consistent, ambitious, aggressive, etc…
The great golfer Ben Hogan was known for being one of the few golfers ever who truly owned his golf swing. In his book Five Lessons, The Modern Fundamentals of Golf he defined character as , “… a set of fundamentals that appeared to me to be right because they accomplished a very definite purpose, a set of fundamentals that proved to me they were right because they stood up and produced under all kinds of pressure.”
Observing prospective employees or clients on the course will allow you to see them in a different light.
Sadly will not be presented with an opportunity to golf with the candidates for this position and will instead have to devise other tests that will simulate real work situations and help expose character the way a game of golf would.
By Prarie Dog, March 26, 2010 @ 7:02 pm
While looking for your ball, a player in foursome picks up your ball by mistake, thinking that he found a bonus ball. You replace the ball and continue play. By rule definition, if the player is your foursome is considered your partner, you take a one stroke penalty. If they are your competitor, you play on with no penalty. Although we have a foursome team bet for 3 dollars, we are also playing against each other for low-net and season champion. I believe we should consider people in your foursome your competitors for rule purposes, since we are playing individual stroke play. This would change the way we enforce the rule for hitting a golf cart with the ball. We have been playing that if you hit any golf cart in your foursome, it is a penalty. With this change, you would only be peanlized if you hit your own golf cart. If someone like Jim-Bob doesn’t play the team bet, they have no partners, so the rule which affects league standing could be affected. (League Champion — PD)
By Larry, March 27, 2010 @ 9:17 am
I agree with Prarie Dog on this one.
By rudy, March 29, 2010 @ 11:37 am
I also agree with Prarie Dog.
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, March 30, 2010 @ 12:20 pm
The Executive Committee has this issue under consideration. This seems like a logical rule on the surface. However, I can’t help but envision someone from the other cart in the group positioning their cart in such a way to “assist” one of their stableford partners, knowing that no penalty can be incurred. If you think you might hit a cart and incur a penalty, wouldn’t it be easier to simply ask someone to move the cart? This appears to be along the same thinking of the rule regarding balls on the green when you’re putting. You have the option to ask that balls be marked. If you don’t, and hit a ball, penalties are invoked. The real question here is who is my partner and who is my competitor? I have three partners when playing stableford, but everyone is a competitor when vying for low-net.
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, March 30, 2010 @ 12:25 pm
Also, Herb looked into this. See my March 4, 2009 entry above.
By rudy, March 30, 2010 @ 12:29 pm
Since we are all competing for the season champion, I say we are all competitors.
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, March 31, 2010 @ 9:32 am
It is the opinion of the Executive Committee that EVERYONE is your competitor. While it is understandable that we have “partners” in our stableford format, the main objective of each player is to score the lowest gross score possible. This is the basis for calculating low-net, calculating points for team stableford points, and the long-term goal of league champion. One of the reasons this issue was brought up was the questionable penalty for hitting a golf cart. Previously, Herb offered this ruling:
**RULE 19. BALL IN MOTION DEFLECTED OR STOPPED**
19-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment – If a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.
My understanding is if you hit yourself or any of your equipment (to include your cart), a penalty is incurred. If you hit someone else, or any of their equipment, no penalty is incurred.
Does anyone disagree? I’m learing, too.
By Prarie Dog, January 7, 2011 @ 5:16 pm
In our first round of the season for the retired group, one of our golfer hit a ball off the tee into a sand trap which was short of the green. All players in the group saw the ball go into the trap. When arriving greenside, the ball could not be found. The player as allowed by the rules, raked the sand in an attempt to visually see the ball. The ball could not be found. The player and the group were confused as to what to do. The player took a 1 stoke penalty, and drop a ball in the trap. We did not know this was incorrect. You learn something everyday. Here is the rule:
Buried Out-of-Site in the Sand! Buried Lie # 12-1
What to do if your ball is lost in the sand.
If your ball is buried so deep in a bunker that it is lost from sight, what can be done to find it? More than you might think. Rule 12-1 allows you to rake the sand or probe it with a club, or anything else, as a way of uncovering a “lost” ball.
In your search, you are allowed to remove enough sand so that part of the ball (just enough to see that it is a ball) is visible. If an excess of sand is removed, or if the ball is moved in the process of searching for it, there is no penalty. Replace the ball if moved and, in either case, re-cover it with sand. (You are allowed to then remove some sand to leave part of the ball visible.)
If, once you’ve found it, you don’t think you can extricate the ball from the lie, you can declare it unplayable and take a one-stroke penalty. If you drop within two clubs-lengths no closer to the hole or on a line behind the ball, you must drop in the bunker; you can also return to the spot of your previous stroke. If the ball is not found, you must take a stroke-and-distance penalty for a lost ball.
By Ron "The Hammer" Williams, January 12, 2011 @ 11:37 am
Mike Fuller – in regards to the ball lost in the sand trap, you could also use our league’s rule regarding a lost ball. Just thought I’d add that option.
By Ron Chavis, January 19, 2011 @ 1:52 pm
All…my email address has changed. Please change my email address to read:
rchavis73@comporium.net
thanks,
Ron Chavis