Mar
02
2013
2014 Season
2014 season is a long way away but based on the hoopla on the rules passed for 2013, it’s never to early to put your rules changes input/opinion out for discussion.
Rules are made and passed based on majority of votes NOT majority of league members. So, if you are not happy with the process or results of the votes, start lobbying for your rule change submission and a seat on the Executive commission.
Be part of the process and understand that just because you see it one way, does not mean the the rule will be accepted by the majority of the voters.
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By Prairie Dog, April 7, 2013 @ 2:01 pm
Proposed Rule Change for 2014 or before (if the league members decide to vote on it: The league will institute no rules that do not comply with USGA Rules. Those that have been passed in the past are void”. This will kill hitting from the red tees as an option on par 3s after hitting the ball in the water. This does not sipped up play, it just improves scores at times. This will kill the sand trap footprint rules, and choosing to drop for a lost ball or OB instead of hitting again from the original spot. This will also kill the max per hole. It is very rare that this is used, and rarely speeds up play. I am ready for these changes now.
By sscngolf, January 23, 2014 @ 10:12 am
Go to http://www.tinyurl.com/2014name to submit your 2014 Executive Committee nominations.
By Pat B., January 23, 2014 @ 11:17 am
I agree with Prairie Dog. If his suggestions are voted-in, please remember to remind some of us “senior” players lest we forget.
I really think playing to the USGA Rules will eliminate the guesswork/questionable shots.
If you don’t agree, please also remember I am probably senior to you and deserve a little respect – lol!
By Ron Williams, January 23, 2014 @ 11:27 am
I am in complete agreement with eliminating our league rules that do not co-exist with USGA rules. As a high handicapper, this will probably hurt me more than the low handicappers, but if we’re going to play the game, let’s play the game correctly. I’ll just have to buy more golf balls. My only question is what do we do when we get to that occasional hole that has a longer-than-usual distance to carry water, marsh, or other area that some golfers simply cannot hit across. How many balls does he have to lose before he gives up? And, if he does, what score is recorded for that hole. I think it would be prudent for EVERYONE to take a look at our league rules to ensure that they are fully aware of what these proposed changes will encompass. The time for decisions are now – not during the first round of the league season.
By Doug Hampton, January 23, 2014 @ 12:08 pm
I can only think of one hole that we regularly play the requires a decent carry over marsh or other area. (#5 Riverfront) Sometimes when we travel into N. Carolina there are some holes that are like that, say Albamarle Sound that requires the long tee shot. Suggestion would be for those older members who may not be able to carry to move to the Senior tees where most times the trash is taken out of play or at least has a shorter carry. If we play by USGA rules strictly, I think most players will need to always keep an extra ball handy for provisional play for not only trash shots, but for shots that find the deep woods. It really sucks to look for a ball 5 minutes and then go back to re-hit!
By Ron Williams, January 25, 2014 @ 9:40 am
Doug – you are correct (as usual). When in doubt, hit a provisional.
By Steve, February 9, 2014 @ 1:33 pm
My two cents….
I’m all in favor of playing strict rules. If we’re going to try to have honest handicaps then playing by the rules is the only way.
Just to be clear on the ‘max per hole’ idea. Personally, I favor picking up once you have reached your “maximum stroke allowance” (MSA). (I believe that’s the correct term.) I believe that as a 23, I can only take 8 strokes on any hole. So after that I should pick up and card an 8 on the whole. That WOULD speed up play. If I remember correctly, the only reason we quit at 6 over par anyway is to accommodate betting which really has nothing to do with the game.
I suggest we wait and see if using MSA has any effect on bet outcomes and then maybe address that problem outside of the league rules since betting is voluntary and has nothing to do with handicaps.
By Ron Williams, February 10, 2014 @ 1:52 pm
I’m trying to “weed” through the implications of using the MSA. A 30-handcapper’s MSA is “9”. A single-digit handicapper’s MSA is a double-bogey (at worse case, a “7”). Using the MSA, the 30-handicapper’s team would register a “-1” for his triple-or-worse score (stableford). Meanwhile, the single-digit handicapper’s team would register a “0” for his double-bogey. Obviously, this is not in line with our intention. Likewise on a par-3. If both players take the MSA, the 30-handicapper would register a “9” while the single-digit handicapper a “5”. While I can see where using the MSA would speed up the game, I don’t think if fairly represent ANYONE’s score for the day. We’ve already heard rumblings about “he who has to pick up his ball because of reaching the maximum strokes allowed should be disqualified from low-net”. If we really want to play more in line with USGA rules, where is it written that a player can only take a certain number of strokes per hole? If we do anything regarding maximum strokes per hole, I would vote to eliminate our rule all-together.
By Derek R, February 24, 2014 @ 7:07 am
I like most of the rules right now. Who wants to take a 20 on a hole? And as far as the bets, I would imagine if we went back and looked at all the low net winners, I would be willing to bet none of those guys took max score on that day. I say we keep it the way it is, why ruin your whole day on one hole? This is suppose to be a fun league, we are not on the PGA and never will be.
By Ron Williams, February 27, 2014 @ 5:49 am
My point was if you place a maximum number of strokes per hole based on the MSA, it is an unfair advantage for the lower handicapper. While I agree that no one wants to score a high number on any hole, restricting one player to 5 strokes per hole while allowing another to take a 9 is not right. Keep our “local” rule to 6-strokes over for everyone or eliminate the rule all-together. The MSA is for handicap calculations – not actual play.
By Derek R, February 27, 2014 @ 9:33 am
I like the rule the way it is now. 6 strokes for everyone, god knows I have put some 11’s on my cards.
By Derek R, February 28, 2014 @ 7:12 am
I think we should open up the league to a lot of our “Guests” who play on a regular basis, like Guy, Mitch, and Ed Collins. I think we should do away with the 1/2 league rounds for the prior 2 years rule, it is almost impossible to prove and it is a very long time to track. If these guys are playing on a regular basis and everyone seems to enjoy playing with them, let’s make them members. I propose a rule change that the league can vote on new members without having to meet criteria for playing a number of rounds with the league. Anyone can propose a new member, but it still has to pass the 2/3 vote by the league.
By Sandbager, February 28, 2014 @ 8:28 am
I propose we not use the -1 for a triple boggie or worse. why should the team lose all their points because one of thier players is having a bad day. If the hadicaps are correct he won’t get his points and the team will be short. But a player thats playing good and pulling all his points should not lose his because of team mate
By Derek R, February 28, 2014 @ 1:07 pm
But if your teammate is playing good you want his points??? Can’t have it both ways, there is no “I” in team!!!
By Doug Hampton, March 5, 2014 @ 7:35 pm
But there is in “Mike”!!! I say leave the points the way it is and if you are playing bad, play better!
By Derek R, March 6, 2014 @ 7:05 am
First off this point system is not even a “Rule”, it is just something we play to have bets. I don’t think this should even be voted on because you can opt out of playing the bets, but you cannot opt out of other “rules”. Anyone else agree?
By Rudy, March 6, 2014 @ 7:55 am
Current rule states that guests playing in our End of Season tournament be charged an entry fee of $5.00. Recommend rule be changed to state that guests will be charged $10.00, same as league members.
By Rudy, March 6, 2014 @ 8:27 am
In reference to new members….. Maybe 1/2 league rounds for 2 years is excessive but still believe there should be a “tryout” period. Can’t have guest show up for one outing; have his name submitted for membership and if he gets 2/3 vote approval then he is in. Which 2/3 of the vote? We hardly get 100% participation on anything so is it 2/3 of the members that voted or 2/3 of all the members?
For known guest members (Mitch, Ed and Guy) with known playing history a vote scheduled for xxx day can be set, if 75% of all league members vote “Yes” they are in. For new guest, recommend they indicated preference to be a league member and play 1/2 league rounds over a 2 year period (to include 2013 season). Showing preference will allow the keeper of the handicaps/weekly outings to track rounds played.
By Herb Donlin, March 6, 2014 @ 9:51 am
In regard to the Maximum Stroke Allowance (MSA), you’re actually referring to Equitable Stroke Control (ESC). “Equitable Stroke Control” (ESC) is the downward adjustment of individual hole scores for HANDICAP purposes in order to make handicaps more representative of a player’s potential ability. ESC sets a maximum number that a player can post on any hole. ESC is used only when a player’s actual score exceeds the player’s maximum number based on the players Course Handicap.
ESC is strictly a mechanism used to limit the number of strokes that can be used in the calculation of a Handicap Index.
In an attempt to save time it was decided to limit the number of strokes at which a player could pick up. 6 over par was selected because it is the minimum number that would not violate the ESC. In order to comply with the ESC a 30+ handicapper had to be allowed to record a 9 on a par 3, hence 6 over.
This allows the Handicap calculation to function as designed. It’s about maintaining a valid Handicap, any connection to betting is secondary.
By Ron Williams, March 6, 2014 @ 11:44 am
MSA, ESC, FTA, KMA – I feel like I’m back in the military! Thanks, Herb, for reminding us of why we have the 6-over rule. It still provides a cap for the high handicapper – an unfair advantage for the low-handicapper. ESC will take of our handicaps without our “help”. I’m not concerned with speeding up the game. Having said that, I can’t imagine my feelings I’ll be having when attempting to hit my 15th shot to get onto the green.
By Doug Hampton, March 6, 2014 @ 7:54 pm
So are you for or against limiting the strokes taken Ron? I am confused. I like knowing that there is a limit. It’s hard enough to remember 6 strokes over, who is going to help the poor sap who reaches 12, 13, or more strokes??? We already know there are some that lose count quickly.
By Larry, March 10, 2014 @ 5:20 pm
Ron,
Don’t forget WTF??
By Ron Williams, March 11, 2014 @ 5:23 am
First Choice – No limit.
Second Choice – 6 over max.
Third Choice – Using the ESC/MSA.
By Larry, March 11, 2014 @ 3:51 pm
New Members: Like Derek’s idea
On the -1 for triple or more, keep it Walters.
For strokes recorded, keep it at 6 over par.
By Larry, March 11, 2014 @ 3:53 pm
Don’t forget to include the footprint in trap rule we did last year. I believe given a second chance to vote on this one, we’ll get it right this time.
By Bob Coppock, March 11, 2014 @ 5:16 pm
On par 3’s, if you fail to go over the water, try again in the event of a mis-hit, before going to the Ladie’s tee.
By Derek R, March 12, 2014 @ 7:40 am
Bob, you always have the option of hitting again, you don’t have to go to the ladies tee’s. What we will be voting on is if you hit one in the water on a par 3, you can declare you are hitting a provisional from there, but if there is a drop area you will use it, if you hit it in the hole, and go up to the green and there is a drop area, your shot in the hole is no good, you must use the drop area. But if at the time you say you are hitting a provisional and you declare you don’t care if there is a drop area you are usign this shot no matter what, your shot counts, but if you hit that one in the water again, it counts, if you go to the green and there is a drop area, your previous shot counted because you declared you were taking your shot again and did not care if there was a drop area.
By Ron Williams, March 12, 2014 @ 9:54 am
We actually have a ruling on par-3 drop areas in our League Rules. “If it is unknown if a designated “drop area” is provided on par-3’s, the member may use the shortest set of tees available on that hole as a “drop area”. If it is discovered that a “drop area” is provided, the member must pick up his previously played ball and play from the “drop area”. The player always has the option of replaying his tee shot with a one-stroke penalty.” The reason we included this rule was so that we would not arrive at the green only to find that no “drop area” was designated – and then have to return to the original tees for a re-hit. As a league, we have ruled that the “shorter tees (not ladies, not red) was designated the “drop area” if a “drop area” was not designated by the course. The fact that a golfer decides to hit from the shorter tees voices his desire to hit from a “drop area”. We have simply designated the shorter tees as the drop area in the event that no course designated drop area exists. To make it simple, if you decide to use the shorter tees and no course designated drop exists, that shot will be used. If a course designated drop area exists the “shorter tee shot” must be abandoned and the golfer will hit from the course designated drop area.
By Derek R, April 4, 2014 @ 10:14 am
Damn starting the season off in last place….worst to first here I come!!!!
By Ron Williams, April 6, 2014 @ 8:11 am
I’ll meet you on the way to the bottom.
By Ron Williams, April 15, 2014 @ 7:21 pm
One of the benefits of being a member of this league is the calculation of handicaps. One of the responsibilities of its members of is to submit all rounds. Take a look at the individual member’s submitted rounds. Are we to believe that we have so many members who have not played a round of golf for months? I suggest that the committee take a good look at this and determine if the “member” is being forthcoming. I know of a couple who are legit – but not all.
By Doug, April 22, 2014 @ 1:49 pm
How does one expect the committee to verify whether someone has been playing golf and not recording their scores? Elctro-shock is probably a good way to get the offender to confess!! On a lighter note, I do have something to ask concerning reporting scores. I think I know the answer but here it is. Recently the areas golf courses all aerated thier greens. I played a few of these places at different times. The groups rule that I was playing with was “automatic 2 putts” on the green. Amazingly with the greens in such bad shape I scored pretty well. I would not post these rounds because I picked up on the holes where I didn’t make a 2 putt on my own.
Right or wrong???
By Ron Williams, April 23, 2014 @ 6:27 am
Doug – The league has rules and its members are expected to abide by those rules. All scores (not just league rounds) are to be reported so that accurate handicaps can be maintained. Withholding a score because it was too high or too low undermines the integrity of the handicap. Even if the score will probably not be used in the handicap calculation, it still becomes a part of your last 20 twenty rounds and therefore becomes a determining factor. Having said all that, there are times when one wants to play a round for “practice purposes” only. The player might want to hit mulligans, improve on seldom used clubs, etc. This is an obvious decision made by the member – but one made before the round, not during or after the round. Let your conscious be your guide.
By Doug, April 23, 2014 @ 9:47 am
Agreed. I just don’t know how the committee can monitor the leagues play that isn’t league play.
By Doug, May 30, 2014 @ 7:55 am
Was there an outing Wednesday? Seems that we have gotten a tad slower in posting the results this season. Just sayin.
By Ron Williams, June 25, 2014 @ 8:59 am
Between trips to Georgia, vacation, sickness, and surgeries (not mind), I’ve missed a lot of Wednesday outings. My strategy now is to sit back and let the “leaders” falter on their own. Of course, I may falter as well (most likely). I am hopeful that I will return next Wednesday.